Irvin Clifford says

ok so the council have plans,haven't we all heard that chestnut before,no doubt the design process which has happened before will be long and weary.

All of this will no doubt take many many months and meanwhile the poor folks affected by the floods will spend more winters sitting in their homes waiting for the water to flood them again.

Yet another example of the councils flannelling of the issue how many months before the designs are completed and submitted for public scrutiny,the one big isue in installing Kilbirnie flood defences is the amount of privately owned ground a lot of which has housing on it,who's going to both tell and compensate these owners for the loss of their property/ground by the installation of flood defences.

So whilst something seems to be happening over the flood issue yet again we have to wait god knows how long before anything happens and as long as I can remember there have always been floods and TALK of sorting it out and thats 47 years of talk I have heard, will it be sorted within the next 47????

pauline says

This is good news some tangible progress on the real solution to the problem. However the project will still require Government money and that might be stumbling block. North Ayrshire is not high on their priority list.

Irvin Clifford says

Whilst the council are taking steps and trying to move forward on the flood action scheme realistically it will be 2015 to 2016 before any form of physical works will take place,

This is what we were told at last nights community council meeting,no surprises there then

Donald Cunninghame says

I think you are being unfair here Irvin, this WILL take time and it has to be the correct solution. You would be the first to complain if they threw out a design after two months and found that it could not be met.

Of course it will take time to design and implement, lets not be too critical though before the process even starts!

Irvin Clifford says

Donald,

I am being critical because of my experience of how parts of NAC works,yes they will design and suggest various small scale schemes and improvements,but the reality is that the Kilbirnie flood defences are only a very small part of a scheme which will by its nature have a greater emphasis on the protection of the larger towns further down the Garnocks course and because of that fact any defences implemented in the town will have to be done in conjunction with defences further down stream.

One of the community councillors could tell us all last night that he had received information from NAC which suggested a flood plain design where water from the Garnock at the bridge at the glengarnock primary school would be pumped out and fed into the fields immediately adjacent to Glengarnock primary and being made to flood the fields to the rear of the cemetery,the Glebe fields and then back into the Garnock from those fields, where is the sense in that flooding the area immediately around a school and housing,that is to me not a good indicator of well thought out flood defence planning,as I have said before,NAC are doing what they can,but are we all as taxpayers willing or able to pay for the compensation of landowners and home owners who will lose their land or homes if the council decide to build physical defences along the rivers course

I dont doubt that it will all take time Donald but yet again all of the people who have been flooded before will have to spend how many more years worrying about their homes before something is actually done.

Donald Cunninghame says

Sorry irvin but you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You criticise the council in one hand by saying they will "no doubt take many months" and then on the other hand you say there are wider issues such as legal matters and "protection of the larger towns further down the Garnocks course and because of that fact any defences implemented in the town will have to be done in conjunction with defences further down stream".

What do you want? A short fix solution that could take months to design or a long term strategy that will take longer?

With regards to the "natural flood plains" this is indeed a common sense way to look at things, and also a more viable and economic option. The reasons are quite simple really, you identify the lowest lying areas and, if viable, you promote flooding to those fields to save the other areas. Not sure who owns the fields in question, however, if for example they are already being paid to have their fields fallow under CAF policies then why not use them as natural flood plains? From what I gather from the fields in question they are not used for agricultural or farming reasons anyway so there is no loss.

As I say, the solution should be a well thought out technical solution, not a knee jerk political solution done to appease those who do not really understand the scale of the situation or the remedies that can be adopted to resolve it.

I would rather wait 6 months or a year for the right solution than 3 months for the wrong one.

dan theman says

Kilbirnie and Glengarnock need physical flood barriers to protect homes and property, while there may be challenges in implementing any scheme it at least shows the process has restarted.  Thankfully the North Ayrshire Councils Executive and in particular local councillor John Bell seem more anxious to work towards a solution rather than look for problems.

Harry McDougall says

Here, here Donald, some folk are never happy with progress!

Yes, it will take time and yes we will all sadly have to wait another few years, however I for one am VERY pleased that action is finally taking place. The spotlight now it turned firmly onto the Scottish Government to see just how quickly they will support this scheme. You never know, it may happen sooner than we all think? Lets hope so anyway.

Irvin, instead of speculating and pouring cold water on everything that NAC says, why not actually take the time to read the document?

http://www.north-ayrshire.gov.uk/ChiefExec/CommRA07.nsf/6c56422ef9135b8e80256a87003d3312/5ae138265aab267a8025794f00381556?OpenDocument

Donald Cunninghame says

Hear Hear Harry / Dan,

It is easy to sit back and criticise, it is another to actually forward proposals or meaningful comment.

I think Irvin really has a grudge against NAC and I do not think that will serve the community council particularly well.

Irvin Clifford says

Look guys I have no problem with NAC per se,but this is a proposed course of action with a proposed budget.

So far we have no other works being started other than developing a design brief.

I have read the document in question and whilst it SUGGESTS a number of actions to help the flood issue it is no more than that a proposal document setting out a number of courses of action

There have been numerous hydrological and geographical surveys of the Garnock and the flood issues over the past 25 years all done by NAC and the companies it contracted to do the work

The land immediately around Glengarnock Primary ,part of it is owned by NAC but the fields are privately owned and legally you cannot inundate that ground without either buying it or getting agreement from the landowner.

I am part of the flood group which was set up within the community council and we have all been working with NAC and the councillors involved and we have been suggesting what we think would work in terms of protection as well as doing our monthly burn clean outs,so our hands get dirty lifting stuff out the burn as well as numerous meetings to try and get done what we can for the town with regards to the flooding.

Donald Cunninghame says

Look guys I have no problem with NAC per se,but this is a proposed course of action with a proposed budget.

So far we have no other works being started other than developing a design brief.

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A design brief is where it all starts though, you dont put a roof on a house until the foundations are in and the walls are up! Or are you suggesting they run head first into and start implementing measures without a proven design?

Are you at liberty to let us know what these suggestions are that the community council have given to alleviate the flooding problem as I was not aware of any hydrologists or flood experts on the community council

Irvin Clifford says

Quote:There have been numerous hydrological and geographical surveys of the Garnock and the flood issues over the past 25 years all done by NAC and the companies it contracted to do the work

I did not claim that any of the Community Council were hydrologists or flood experts as per the above paragraph from my previous post,the suggestions have varied from a physical flood barriers throughout the affected areas to flood plain and channels to fill them as well as various forms of home flood defence schemes as shown to us by Paul Hendy from the Scottish Flood Forum,his work with us has helped to form and shape NAC's thinking on various aspects of the flooding issue,so we aint experts but we have been fortunate in working with a few on this issue.

Here is further information I received today by email on the floods issue,this is from Councillor Anthea Dickson.

"First of all I would like to thank you all for your hard work and participation not just with the Community Council in general but with special attention to the Garnock River flooding problem. You have taken it to heart and worked together on the gathering of the flood information survey that has helped inform the Councils flood defence proposals, have ensured the council are listening and responding to flood mediation opportunities and have finally got an outline plan designed that is fit to go forward for approval as a whole and in constituent parts.

Paul Hendy was excellent at bringing flood products to people's knowledge and has shaped the council's thinking about providing bins with flood sacks in them (yet to be delivered or even decided where and to whom) and erecting 2 CCTV cameras that will allow residents to see river levels from a distance (siting of these to be decided in the next few weeks). I am chasing Paul to get information on the houses that were being surveyed so that the Roads team can work out a scheme of assistance.

Although it is excellent that NAC has finally shown some real interest in what could be constructed to protect homes, we are in reality very far from it. We only have an outline design that needs to be approved by the Scottish Government. Then there is the detail design to be chosen, landowners to negotiate with, final proposals to be approved in both the whole and in parts, so that it is ready to put to a body that has funding available for such projects.

Donald Cunninghame says

Although it is excellent that NAC has finally shown some real interest in what could be constructed to protect homes, we are in reality very far from it. We only have an outline design that needs to be approved by the Scottish Government. Then there is the detail design to be chosen, landowners to negotiate with, final proposals to be approved in both the whole and in parts, so that it is ready to put to a body that has funding available for such projects.

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Exactly, these things take considerable time so why knock them for taking time and then go on to explain why it takes time?